The Outlaw 8 Ball Chip Pool Tournament
Schedule
Sat Jan 14 2023 at 03:30 pm to 11:00 pm
Location
The Outlaw | Ogden, UT
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Chip Tourney Set up/Operation/Rules: The Outlaw opens at 3:30, sign ups begin, and play starts at 4:00.
VNEA rules 8 ball Chip Tournament.
$20 entry fee, $10 added money per player.
.25 scratch pot will pay one additional payout spot.
$1 per entry each week goes to end session payout pool.
$2 8 ball break payouts from added money.
We pay out 1/3 of the field (an example is 30 entries pays 10 spots plus one for the scratch pot where a traditional payout would pay 8 or 1/4 of the field).
Due to an overwhelming amount of entry requests, there will be a soft cap of 32 entries. Additional entries beyond 32 will be evaluated for time constrains. Arrive early to ensure a spot. Must be present to enter. No call in text or social media requests will be taken early to ensure spots.
Max entries of 40 players. Chip allocation may be adjusted with max fields.
Must play 50% of this session to be invited to the end session event.
End session event is tentatively scheduled for May 20, 2023. This will be a large session with approximately 33 weeks. This means players will need 17 weeks to be invited to that. Official numbers will be set next year after other events or weeks off might change total numbers. Software contains player participation numbers.
There will be strictly followed late entry penalties. No call ins, no friend referral, you must be present to enter for yourself. DO NOT CALL. If you can’t physically be at The Outlaw before 6pm, you can’t enter. If you come from a long way, make sure you are there before 6pm.
The tournament starts at 4. If as this session progresses, we will eliminate late entries, if more issues arise.
This protects the event while allowing players to enter late. Traditional bracket events can’t take late entries after the start. It is adverse to enter late because of losing chips and players should make it in time to avoid penalties. We allow late entries for people who can’t make the 4 pm start. However, the chip penalties will be enforced as stated.
Once tournament has started (first matches called) any entry after this will be considered late and lose chips as follows:
Tourney official start (matches called) til 4:45 you will lose 1, 4:46 til 5:15 2 chips will be removed, 5:16 til 5:59 3 will be removed,.
Time is official on tournament laptop.
No entry accepted after 6:00. You are not 5 minutes late at 6:05 you are 2 hours and 5 minutes late!
This format allows late entry but protects the field by assessing chip penalties in approximate rates to the tournament flow and their losses over that same time period. See TD for more details.
VNEA Rules, (http://www.vnea.com/8-ball-rules.aspx) each match consists of one game of 8 ball, flip for every break, loser pays the extra quarter and racks, no long waits to play, winner stays at table, loser gets a chip removed. Play until you lose all your virtual “chips”. Chips equal loses, there is not a handicap between two players, just how many chips you have before losing out.
Chips are allocated based on FargoRate. Chips may be adjusted by the tournament director based on field size or time. This will be evaluated and done prior to play with near full field. See TD for additional details.
InGen Tournament Software used (submitted to FargoRate).
8 Ball Breaks…must be legal, no fouls, scratching does not count. See the TD for the payout after you make one. There is no limit. 8 ball breaks are not a win, spot of the 8 or a re-rack is determined by the breaker or opponent when the 8 is made but a foul was committed by the breaker.
The FargoRate is not set by the tournament director except for players who do not have one, then the TD will create a starter rate for you. Men at 525, women at 425 unless known skill level is different. Results are uploaded to the FargoRate database, and then the FargoRate group will update player ratings. Typically this is updated every week. These are publicly available on the FargoRate app and website. You can look up any player in the world to review their rating. While a player is under a preliminary rating, TD may adjust to meet player ability (if artificially high or low due to low number of games played). This is rare and requires special circumstances. Once established (200 games played), that becomes the players official FargoRate. This can be used anywhere in the world that uses the FargoRate system for handicapped events.
There are ranges that the FargoRate and tournament software will use to allocate chips to a player. If you are close to one of those numbers, you may jump between number of chips from event to event. One hypothetical scenario could be a 399 rated player and a 400 rated player. The 400 will get 5 chips and a 399 will get 6. While this can seem unfair, the chip level is set, and a player’s chip total will be set with these thresholds in place. The tournament director will use the FargoRate listed on the day of event. This can fluctuate week to week if you are a player close to one of these lines. 629/599/539/479/399 are examples of chip allocation ratings. So one week you could get one less chip than the last if your rate is close to one of these (numbers are approximate and may be adjusted from example in the actual software).
These chip field ranges are meant to be fair and allow the tournament to complete on time. They are based on the players who regularly attend this event. New or occasional players may not understand these ranges, but they have been set for the majority of “core” participants. Current ranges are set after several years experience (since 2015) of running this chip style event in Northern Utah. Recalculation of the rates for chip allocation are performed several times by the TD and will be adjusted as needed.
If you have multiple FargoRates, the highest will be used. Do not request additional chips. Seriously don’t. We use the FargoRate to get chips. It is what it is. They are set by your FargoRate and the preset ranges in the software. No one is targeted to have chips removed. The ranges are evaluated based on the normal group of long time entrants to have a fun and fair event. This is not a world championship. It’s a weekly event meant to grow the sport, have fun and learn. Most of all FUN.
Full fields, Slow play and leaving the event:
To complete the event prior to bar closing, a 10-minute clock will be used. After the 10-minute threshold, a shot clock will be used for both players. 10 minutes is typically enough time to complete a game of 8 ball. Players consistently or intentionally running behind will get timed and face getting penalized for intentionally slow play.
Matches will be timed in the software. National averages of 8 minutes per game will be set. Once a match is called, each player has 2 minutes to start the game. While any one game can take longer to play, safeties, misses etc., there will be monitoring of matches to ensure tournament integrity. It is 100% the players responsibility to be ready for the start of the game, to make honest attempts to play to the best of their ability and not “cheat” the field by using slow play tactics. Smoking, restroom use and getting drinks need to be done before a match is called. DO NOT WAIT UNTIL YOU ARE CALLED TO A MATCH TO DO THESE THINGS!
If you have any doubt, look at the tournament board and see where you are located. If you are within 6 players from a match, you will be called at any time. It isn’t an evil dictatorship and we want to have fun. Repeated and intentional slow play tactics will get penalized but we also want players to enjoy the event. Players will get warned before losing chips.
Leaving the location will need to be planned accordingly. There will be no special time exemption when a player leaves the event location. When a player is called for a match, If a player is not located, a one time swap of one position will happen and then they will be called for the next match. They will be afforded the 2-minute grace period, and then will be given a loss for that game. This is on the second match call. This is at the TD discretion. Running to get food or errands does not let you “skip the line” without penalty and your match could be forfeited.
SLOW PLAY RULES. The nature of a chip tournament means lasting longer gets you closer to the money. In the spirit of fun and fair play, intentionally stalling or slow playing will be penalized. There are certain moments during a game that may require extra thought or concentration. However, continuously taking 1 to 3 minutes between shots is not acceptable. Giving the appearance of stalling to make the match last longer will result in removal of chips, up to being eliminated from the days tournament. The TD can see what is going on and has been around a long time, has seen all the moves, and knows the difference between a difficult shot and just sandbagging. It is up to the players to respect all the entrants. No one wants to place these restrictions on players, but they will be when it is warranted.
We do not want this to happen, but it is the players responsibility, not the location or tournament director to ensure you are ready to play each game. Players who abuse or take this to the limits will be placed into the slow play shot clock protocol as described below.
If there is slow play in a game, a 60 second shot clock will be implemented. 1st foul is a warning, 2nd is ball in hand for opponent, 3rd foul is loss of game. The shot clock will apply to both players if invoked. You must contact the tournament director to implement these timers. You cannot do this yourself. The penalties carry over to the next match(s), and a player who was penalized will start at loss of game for remainder of the event for continued slow play.
If a match goes ahead ver the 10 minute clock in the software, both players will be marked as slow and future games that event could be timed and penalties applied.
These rules are in place to protect the field from anyone who intentionally tries to stretch the rules.
Player list changes:
There are a few ways that positions can be changed.
Below is a list and description of how and why the player list or a pending match up could change. Player swaps are rare and do not negatively impact tournament play or finishing outcomes.
In chip tournaments there are no real defined opponents as compared to a traditional bracket draw. With a “next up” list, you are waiting until a match is reported to get called for a new game. The order matches are reported as finished will alter who plays who. Given those parameters we have learned that these situations can occur and provide rules to cover these issues. TD discretion will be used in these and any other unknown situation that could lead to the waiting list being altered.
1. Selecting the wrong winner from a match in the application. Fixing this error will alter the matches when corrected. Some errors are worse than others and require manual list manipulation to reset back to a correct flow.
2. First two round rematches. We try to catch early rematches. In a traditional bracket tourney you do not get rematches early on. If we catch them we try to avoid them. Once a match is called it will be played even if a rematch.
3. Player called for a match that can’t be located. We allow one position swap on the list. Player is marked with loss if not located for next match call after 2 minute grace period. This is at TD discretion and taking advantage of this rule will cause immediate loss of chip(s) and/or removal from tournament.
4. The TD must play adjacent to TD table to protect laptop/event integrity and tournament documentation.
5. Adding late entries . Rare random software glitches can reorder some wait list orders.
6. Players that surrender before chips are lost. This typically causes the #3 issue when players leave but do not notify TD.
The chip tournament allows for these modifications as opposed to a double loss format.
You never have a set next opponent in a chip tournament. You can play one of 12 different opponents while on the wait list. No matches are “set up” for any perceived special match ups. You simply do not know your next opponent until a match has been officially called. This is a fundamental difference between a chip or a bracket tournament. There is no set opponent until a match is completed and a new opponent is pulled from the list.
Long rant section …. This is a for fun weekly event. While the payouts are some of the best offered It is not a major event or world championship with extremely rigid rules that those events need.
I have ran in my 35+ years hundreds, maybe even crossing into four digits of these weekly tournaments. My rules are meant to provide the best possible all around experience. Tough for the better players and fair for everyone. I also see no benefit from maliciously making players lose over the issues described above. It’s why I have developed the format as it is today.
Having players input is both a benefit and a problem. Just because you play does not mean you understand tournament structure. Even players that run tournaments do not know or have experienced all the possible issues that pop up.
Almost every player pulls some kind of hustle at tournaments. The chip is no different. Players stall, get drinks, smoke or run to the restroom after a match is called. If it’s within the allotted time I allow for this, but I also monitor players and have and will penalize repeat offenders.
Every one of us that have played long enough have seen matches swapped or delayed for late players. We have watched or heard entitled played say they won’t play on X table or in the other room. We have seen matches changed after a draw is posted and moved around over late players for the Calcutta benefits.
We have watched one part of a bracket fall behind waiting for a couple of “preferred “ players” because the TD doesn’t want to offend them while making others forfeit when they weee just out smoking. Even players that complain about one issue have benefitted from these practices.
I have strict rules in place with a fair warning system before those penalties are used. Going forward, players that are known to play those games will be timed and penalized with more frequency than in the past.
Errors in match results happen, we are human. Chip tournaments are run on software not paper and mistakes happen. They also have to be fixed.
People play pool and people can have issues. We will take that into account. Health or personal issues can pop up and we want to work around those where we can within the rules of the event. There is no “unfair” actions taken during this event.
So now, knowing all of this, please… spare me the horror of concern about swapping places. It’s not going to change the tournament outcome in any significant way. There have not been any hand picked matches and that implication is simply a misunderstanding of how it works.
No one was forced to play the highest FR player multiple times on purpose. There is not set up if you somehow didn’t win the tourney. This is too tough by design to easily win week in and week out. NO ONE IS SINGLED OUT TO GET PUT OUT EARLY. If you believe that, you are wrong. You are free to not play again.
We have far more issues with intentional slow players or fraudulently low FargoRates than any one swapped player position can cause. We have identified several players that fall into these categories and will take the necessary actions to protect future events.
Everyone is welcome to play and no one is forced to. We welcome players from all over, but if the set up and administration of this event doesn’t fit your personal style or idea of “how you would run it, or how it has to be ran” you can choose not to play. We offer the same rules equally for everyone. We don’t favor anyone and we put on a really fun weekly event in a great location that under these rules draws an average of over 32 players a week.
We won’t change our philosophy for our events. We do post a full set of rules and what to expect with full disclosure for all to read.
We continue to evaluate and update these as needed to provide the best events.
Rant over….
To address the concern of players worried that other players alter the matches (without any evidence) we will be monitoring the laptop closely and will keep players away from it including locking it down if that becomes necessary. Logging of issues will be monitored for improving any issues that may be noted.
The Outlaw pool events entry policy.
Each event will have location open times, event entry start and event draw times posted. With the exception of the chip tournament that has a late entry policy on the event page, all other formats will have a one hour period until the draw is performed. Once the draw is complete, there will be no late entry. Even if spots are available. If you are not present and not have paid an entry for the draw prior to it being performed, you will not be eligible for that days event.
You must, for all events, be present to enter. There are no phone in, social media or friend referral entries. We do not take pre entry for weekly or every other week ran events. Just as if you are catching a plane, there is a start time that you must be there in time for. The start time is not the draw time. Delta will not postpone a flight if you are stuck in traffic and call their ticket counter. Likewise, our events are posted in advance so that you can plan on attending at the times posted. We can’t be responsible for any outside actions that may cause you to be late. It is 100% the player’s responsibility to be on time.
We count on time as prior to the listed time of draw. You need to plan accordingly to be on time. Too many prior events have been adversely delayed by players swearing the would be there on time. That is not fair to the players who were present on time. There will be no exceptions to this entry policy.
See Tournament Director (TD) for additional details and explanations.
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Where is it happening?
The Outlaw, 1254 W 2100 S,Ogden,UT,United StatesEvent Location & Nearby Stays: